calming the waters

April 7, 2009

towards a reconciliation of religious people with scientific atheists
with a massive debt of gratitude to Alan Watts, specifically for his book
The Supreme Identity: Oriental Metaphysic and the Christian Religion.

Introduction

The battle between scientific atheists and religious people – henceforth to be known as the God Wars – is fraught with misunderstanding on both sides. Not only do the proponents of each position usually misunderstand the position of the other, being inclined to read only the most affirming literature of their own camp and review only the least intelligent literature from the other, but they often misunderstand their own as well. This is as true of scientific atheists as it is of religious people, although in the case of the religious it is arguably more tragic. The result of this mutual misunderstanding is an image of ignorant armies clashing by night, and since both armies are emotionally partial to their own position (as well as sometimes possessing a merely partial understanding of it) there seems very little hope for consensus or resolution.

As a scientific and religious atheist, I sympathise with each position while remaining emotionally unattached to either. My understanding of each side is incomplete and imperfect, especially regarding Christianity, but sufficient to afford me the understanding that the conflict between them – at least insofar as it concerns metaphysics and religious belief – is mostly wrong-headed. (In the political sphere, however, the argument has practical relevance, and here it is all the more important that religious people understand the logic of metaphysic as distinct from the metaphor of religion, and temper their evangelism accordingly.)

How do the parties to the conflict err? Religious apologists err mostly by confusion, when they conflate their religious metaphors with a metaphysic whose nuances they do not understand, quote scripture by way of argument, evangelise with dogma before compassion, or wade into the impossible territory of proving God’s existence with logic. Scientific atheists err mostly by inflation, when they admit no strict theoretical limits to science, fail to recognise the faiths inherent in a scientific world-view, or deny the possibility of knowledge beyond the rational and the empirical. These are the main respects in which, I feel, those who cleave to a position must increase their own understanding of that position as well as the ‘opposing’ one.

And both science and religion tend towards a kind of fundamentalism. Modern-day ‘followers of science’ tend to give it some of the characteristics of a creed, and it is probably unnecessary to elucidate the ways in which religious dogma assumes absolute rather than relative truth for some of its own followers.

My main motivation for writing this is the distress and frustration I feel in witnessing the angst, anger and confusion felt by participants in this conflict, especially since I believe the conflict is largely unnecessary. I hope to engage with all parties to this conflict in an intelligent and critical conversation that will at least partially assuage their mutual dissatisfaction.

Framing the Conflict

The largest questions in the battle between atheists and the religious include: whether God exists or not; the value of religion to humanity; the political relationship between church and state; and the debate between evolutionists and their religious opponents, the latter an apparently unnecessary debate which seems undying despite having been effectively concluded long ago: evolution happens.

I don’t intend to address these questions by turn, which would merely add my voice to the clamour and go no way towards quieting it. What I intend is a broad philosophical exploration of science, metaphysic and religion. Hopefully I will be able to explain some insights on topical questions at opportune moments along the way, and later I might be able to address specific unresolved questions from both sides in the God Wars.

I have said that when scientific atheists err it is usually by inflation, by which I mean they believe science can do more than it actually can. In my view, errant scientific atheists in the God wars either admit no strict theoretical limits to science, or fail to recognise the faiths inherent in a scientific world-view, or deny the possibility of knowledge beyond the rational and the empirical. These failures lead them to overestimate the capacity of science to answer all questions, resulting in an overzealous flying of the scientific flag and a corresponding attitude of intolerance and dismissal to alternative models of explanation.

This attitude is recognised by many as analogous to the arrogance and intolerance of religious fundamentalism. That some religious people are hopelessly dogmatic needs no elaboration. But the intolerance of the religious fundamentalist and the arrogance of the scientific fundamentalist are in many ways counterparts. The scientist, however, suggests that his apparent arrogance is actually a confidence justified by a wealth of scientific evidence. Scientific evidence is based on methodical observation and repeated testing, and compared to it the unobservable and scientifically untestable ‘hypotheses’ of religion are flimsy indeed. The common religious man is affronted by this, the scientist remains incredulous, and the confused argument continues apace.

The factors allowing this debate to continue are at least twofold. The first factor is the privacy of religious experience. In gathering empirical, objective knowledge, science is limited to third-person, repeatable observations. Religious experience (or, to be precise, the metaphysical realisation that is later codified in terms of religious experience) is first-person and unrepeatable, and therefore permanently inaccessible to science – except insofar as it can be represented by analogy as neuronal firings. This process is akin to reading a Wordsworth poem on your computer in the form of the 1s and 0s in the hard drive; the bits themselves neither constitute nor represent the poem, let alone convey the intensity of its meaning. But since intensity of meaning – experience per se – cannot be quantified, observed and tested, it does not constitute empirical evidence and is scientifically invalid. (In fact, scientists feel compelled to explain mind as an epiphenomenon, or less, of matter, but experience the same pitfalls as those who try to explain matter as an epiphenomenon of mind.) The scientist and the religious person feel at loggerheads, but actually their views are perpendicular. Like two vehicles proceeding at right angles, they could continue peacefully on their respective courses, but their ignorance – or their need to perpetuate their views – causes them to clash.

The second factor perpetuating the clash is a specific and entirely forgiveable ignorance that concerns the necessary exegesis in metaphorical terms – which is the creation of religion – out of the ineffable experience of metaphysical realisation. This is generally more problematic for the Western mind, so I’ll deal with it in its own sub-heading.

There may be other factors contributing to the God Wars’ longevity, but these are the main ones I can think of: that science is compelled either to deny ‘religious experience’ or reduce it to an observable analogue that is rightly unacceptable to the religious; and that religious metaphor is routinely taken for the truth itself rather than understood correctly as a metaphor for the infinite.

Metaphysicalstyle

The metaphysical realisation of the infinite is the true beginning (as in the origin) and the true end (as in the goal) of all religion. The beatific visions of the saints, the realisations of mystics and of ordinary people are experiences of the ineffable infinite which religion, or any other system, can describe only by metaphor. The second ignorance that allows the God Wars such egregious longevity is the tendency of religious people as well as scientists to confuse religious metaphors with the ineffable truth – the infinite – to which they point.

Now the Western mind, whether religious or not, is uneasy with talk of the infinite. We are accustomed to gradual, rational exposition and are reluctant to accept ‘immediate certainties’ or ponder the truly metaphysical. Especially when this is declared from the start to be paradoxical to language and inaccessible to thought except by metaphor, it is easier to dismiss such territory as mere nonsense and return to the study of charmed quarks. But this is precisely the territory one must explore if one is serious about life, or if one wishes to engage with religion in a sincere way, regardless of whether one’s intentions for this engagement are that it should be sympathetic or hostile.

There is no place from which to begin to understand the infinite except the infinite itself. This may be inconvenient, but one cannot work up to the subject by easy stages. Almost all writings about the infinite plunge straight into the heart of their topic without preface, apology or introduction (and this unanimity might be surprising to some sceptics whose understanding of religion has been more or less superficial) but all do so by metaphor, whether personification as “the Lord” or abstraction as “OM” or “the Tao”:

“In the heart of all things, of whatever there is in the universe, dwells the Lord. He alone is the reality. Wherefore, renouncing vain appearances, rejoice in him.”
- Isha Upanishad

“The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao; the name that can be defined is not the unchanging name.”
- Tao Te Ching

“OM. This eternal Word: what was, what is and what shall be, and what beyond is in eternity. All is OM.”
- Mandukya Upanishad

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.”
- St John, I

In the infinite we are dealing with something that has no beginning and no end, and to explore it there is no finite point of reference from which to begin. We must therefore begin with the infinite itself, and try to understand as clearly as possible what the word means. Almost invariably our imagination tries to grasp the infinite in terms of a boundless expansion of space or an indefinite duration of time. In spatial terms, it is perhaps that which expands outwards forever or contracts inwards forever. In temporal terms it is an unending time series or perhaps an “ever-diminishing point of time called the moment” (Alan Watts, The Supreme Identity: Oriental Metaphysic and the Christian Religion, 1950). In terms of consciousness it is an indefinably vast mass of sentiency; in terms of power a potential so vast as to make the explosion of every atom in the universe mere firecrackers.

“But expand, prolong, magnify and multiply as we may, we are not one fraction nearer to the true infinite than when we began, for the terms of time and space [or anything else] are not applicable to the infinite” (Watts). One million to the power of one million is no closer to strict infinity than one. So instead of trying to multiply our way to infinity, we might denote the infinite by outlining it in the limitations of space and time, as the sizeless, the spaceless or the timeless. We could say that the infinite exists in its entirety at every point of space. “Or, to put it in another way, from the standpoint of the infinite every point of space is absolutely here, for there is not a different infinite in every place. In yet another way, we can say that there is no space or distance between the whole infinite and anything at all” (Watts). Or, in terms of time, that from the standpoint of the infinite, every moment of time, past, present and future, is absolutely now. As the infinite must always be described paradoxically, a not altogether terrible description is that the infinite is that circle whose centre is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.

That there is no finite point from which to explore or work up to the infinite, the scientist and the philosopher regard as a hopeless position, for to adopt the existence of the infinite, or God, as one’s major premise contradicts the rules of logic. But there is no alternative, for “as the reality of light cannot be proved or described in terms of visible shape, the reality of the infinite cannot be proved in terms of the finite. … Logic… may travel backwards in time from effect to cause, effect to cause, but as long as it stays in time it cannot touch the eternal… The most that can be said is that finite contingencies suggest the infinite; in no sense can they be said to prove it.” (Watts)

By way of encouragement to the logician, a parallel to this situation is available in ordinary experience. All knowledge must begin with oneself; it must assume a knower as base of knowledge. But no objective proof of the knower’s existence will ever be forthcoming, for the knower can never be the subject of its own knowledge, so its existence can never be objectively proved. Objective knowledge suggests a knower as the finite suggests the infinite; neither proves what it suggests. Nor can the infinite be described in terms of anything finite, as the knower cannot be described by anything known. Neither long nor short, white nor black, hot nor cold – the knower transcends all the objects of its knowledge as the infinite transcends the finite. “But as the infinite is the ground of the finite, the knower is the ground of knowledge; apart from the knower, or at least the knowing process, nothing whatsoever would exist from the standpoint of knowledge.” (Watts)

The philosopher’s intuitive knowledge of a knower may not be objective nor proven, but it is something much better. Objective knowledge is mediate and relative, but subjective experience is immediate; the knower is as absolute and certain as anything in the realm of science or philosophy. In the same way, for metaphysic the infinite is the certain and irreducible ground of everything finite and is known immediately as distinct from objectively. Since both proof and doubt can refer only to objective things, the infinite is accessible to neither. As ultimate Reality, there is no external standpoint from which to doubt it or to prove it.

One may well respond: “We have intuitive experience of our own knower-ness and are prepared to call it immediate and irreducible, but we have no such experience of the ultimate Reality. How can we accept it as our starting point?” The answer is that, in principle, the knower and Reality are the same, all knowledge being partial participation in infinite knowledge – a metaphor that does not reduce the infinite to only meta-knowledge or ‘cosmic consciousness’, but merely follows from the fact that since it manifests limited knowledge, the infinite contains the possibility of all knowledge, infinite knowledge. As the infinite, Reality ‘generates’ reality by limiting itself in apparently multiple finitudes. (And the interconnectedness of these finitudes points, similarly, without proving anything, to an underlying or transcending order.)

It is possible to go extraordinarily deep into this topic but now, with heartfelt thanks to Alan Watts (and obeisances to his publishers) I would like to leave aside the idea of the infinite. I have merely set before you the impossibility of proving or disproving it, but even describing it is like trying to describe a mirror in terms of the colours and shapes it reflects, yet as the mirror is the indispensable source of the images it reflects, the infinite is the indispensable ground of being and knowledge.

So, with relevance to the God Wars: if God is understood to mean the infinite, God is beyond proof or falsification. Firstly, then, for goodness’ sake stop arguing about whether God exists. To regard the existence of the infinite, or of God, as being of the same order as the existence of anything else you can think (such as a flying spaghetti monster or a pink teapot orbiting Mars) is to miss the point. God is not posited in this way to begin with.

Secondly, I have a message for religious fundamentalists.

God is Your Metaphor

Religion is knowledge of the infinite in terms of analogy. Whereas the metaphysical realisation is immediate, subjective and direct, “the religious mode of knowledge is mediate, objective and analogical, and does not claim to be anything else.” (Watts) Correctly understood, Christian theology is a well developed doctrine that in no way contradicts itself or a non-dual metaphysic of the infinite. Only a superficial understanding of Christian theology (one which does not understand it as a metaphor for the infinite but as an absolutely literal doctrine – and just as many if not more Christians err in this regard as do religious sceptics) could regard it as logically untenable or naïve. Such a view is the valid conclusion of an invalid method employed by an investigator lacking one crucial piece of the puzzle, like the congenitally blind man who knows sunlight only by its warmth or someone who insists on evaluating apples by their physical dimensions and not by their taste.

Despite the ineffability of the infinite, it is necessary to develop religion. One cannot hang around in metaphysical la-la land and say nothing whatsoever about the infinite if one’s goal is to realise it. It is necessary to generate a knowledge of the infinite in terms of what is accessible to mankind: reason, feeling and sense. One must employ an image for the infinite. And there are three kinds of image (this borrowed, once again, from Alan Watts):

  • Rational images or ideas: forms seen in the mind’s eye (which is the strict meaning of “idea”). “Metaphysical doctrines are not ideas in this sense, for the mind is incapable of forming any image of the eternal… The mind can conceive the eternal as everlasting time, but this is analogy pure and simple.” (Watts) Everlasting time and indefinite duration are not ideas of eternity, because time and duration are relative concepts of temporality, whereas to the eternal all moments are present – the strictly eternal is ‘timeless’. The mind can only think about the truly eternal negatively, so it must employ ideas.
  • Feeling images or values. “In order to relate the infinite to man’s feeling nature, it must be clothed in some emotionally moving analogy.” (Watts) A ‘non-idea’ like the Eternal or the Absolute lacks the feeling value that attaches to ideas like God, the Divine Love, or the Everlasting Father.
  • Sense images or sacraments. “For the original apostles, Christ Himself would have come… under this category, being the Eternal Word made flesh. To Christians of later times the Incarnate Word is sensed indirectly in the sacraments.” (Watts)

Thus religion incarnates or projects the ultimate reality in creed, in code (values) and in cult, so as to be meaningful and effective for the whole of mankind’s nature.

Why does Christianity not speak of the metaphysic of the infinite? And why should Christians not be outraged at this apparent reduction of their faith to a kind of second-rate metaphor for something completely nonsensical? The answer is that the purpose of Christianity is salvation, which is analogous to but, relatively speaking, distinct from metaphysical realisation (although the path of some Christian saints or mystics may very well involve both) and we live in the realm of the relative.

“Now the Church, as such, is not concerned with metaphysic. The nature of the Church is sacramental. That is to say, it is a concrete and positive form of creed, code and cult, which has its own proper function of representing the spiritual by analogy, and in physical terms. Thus it is quite beyond the design and nature of the church to employ the negative speech of metaphysical doctrine, or to deal in any way with immediate as distinct from mediate and analogical knowledge.” (Watts)

Christianity is concerned with the person as a temporal being; metaphysic is concerned with man as an eternal being. In the same way that the infinite is not opposed to the finite but finds its perfect expression therein, there is no conflict between metaphysic and the Church but the latter expresses the former, and each is perfected by the other.

Dionysius the Areopagite, a sixth-century Syrian monk, “distinguished between the kataphatic and apophatic means of knowing God, which are equivalent to the religious and the metaphysical. Kataphasis is the description of God in terms of created nature… Apophasis is the negative description, the subject of [Dionysius's] Mystical Theology, whose final chapter might have been taken bodily from the Upanishads or Shankara.” (Watts)

“Going yet higher, we say that [God] is neither a soul, nor a mind, nor an object of knowledge… neither is he reason, nor thought, nor is he utterable or knowable; neither is he number, order, greatness, littleness, equality, inequality, likeness, nor unlikeness; neither does he stand or move, nor is he quiescent; neither has he power, nor is power, nor light; neither does he live, nor is life; neither is he being, nor everlastingness, nor time… nor wisdom, nor one, nor oneness, nor divinity, nor goodness… nor any other thing known to us or any other creature” (Theologica Mystica, V., a chapter entitled “That he partakes not of intelligible things who is pre-eminently their maker”)

The Mandukya Upanishad, mentioned by Watts, elucidates:

“The infinite consciousness is not that which is conscious of the subjective, nor that which is conscious of the objective, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is simple consciousness, nor that which is a mass all sentiency, nor that which is all darkness. It is unseen, transcendent, unapprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable, indescribable, the sole essence of the consciousness of Self, the negative of all illusion.”

Now, briefly, regarding the attributes of God, it should be easily understood that the Christian God is omniscient and omnipotent because (in the crudest language of the least realised person, your author) the infinite ‘contains’ all viewpoints and all possibilities. It is everywhere and does everything. God is understood as Creator because all finite and temporary being has its ground in the infinite. And so forth.

I think I have devoted enough copy to the task of ‘explaining religion’ and I hope I have not failed too dismally in that task. Actually I am more or less unqualified to do this, so I hope I haven’t merely created more confusion. At the very least, I hope it has given some superficially anti-religious viewpoints pause to consider that their enemy may be deeper and, perhaps, more credible than they had imagined, if not less inscrutable.

By way of further specification, it is obvious that many religious people are also entirely dogmatic and impervious to reason as well as experience. People are fragile and fallible; brainwashing is alive and well in religion as elsewhere, and dogmatic indoctrination is an extremely dangerous trend, especially when a church aspires to statehood or dogma subverts reason to political ends. In some senses, then, the God Wars must rightly continue. But contrary to many scientific atheists’ beliefs, religion does not necessitate brainwashing, and God is not only for suckers.

On to Science

I’ve said that scientific atheists err mostly by inflation, when they admit no strict theoretical limits to science, fail to recognise the faiths inherent in a scientific world-view, or deny the possibility of knowledge beyond the rational and the empirical. So the question to ask is what parts of reality are off-limits to science.

As a disclaimer I can only hope is unnecessary, I want to state briefly that although I think followers of science sometimes overreach themselves, I am not antipathetic to science. I thrilled to Richard Dawkins’s The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker before being massively disappointed by The God Delusion, where he overreached himself and let his tone change from that of a masterly and companionable guide exploring the fascinating intricacies of biology to a shrill and disdainful preacher from the pulpit of an ill-considered dogmatism. Science has produced wonderful benefits for humankind, along with some terrible dangers, and the validity and efficacy of its methods, within its field, is not to be denied. But its field is limited nonetheless.

I’ve pointed out that the scientific method can only deal with third-person observable phenomena, so it cannot directly investigate experience as such. Science can also not deal with the once-off incident, or the ‘miracle’, because its method relies upon repeatable experiments. The question of Christ’s resurrection, for instance, as a once-off event, is not accessible to scientific investigation. The most a scientist can do is furnish opinions, never evidence, and even then his opinions would not come in his capacity as a scientist but as a philosopher. In fact the resurrection would not even have been a question for science if there had been scientists at Golgotha, for they would not have been able to repeat the experiment.

A Christian would be ill-advised to put too much stock in this point, because as historical dogma the question of the resurrection is, of course, just as inaccessible to him as it is to the scientist. The Christian believes it on faith; the scientific atheist disbelieves it on faith. The point nevertheless remains that science as a creed (and in the eyes of many of its followers it does tend to be a creed) ‘averages out’ the world into a kind of consensus reality. Science must ignore, deny or explain away unrepeatable phenomena, but it remains a great arrogance for a school that deals only with the necessarily commonplace or repeatable to suggest that very rare phenomena do not occur or are impossible.

What Life Is For

“Although the phrase ’scientific truth’ has for our age almost the same ring of ultimate authority as the phrase ‘Catholic truth’ had for the past, the honest and strict scientist is the last person to claim such authority. As a human being, every scientist is a philosopher; but he is not a philosopher as a scientist. As a scientist he is vividly aware of the limitations of his branch of knowledge. He knows that science is the measurement, description and classification of natural processes; it is the study of how things behave. It cannot tell what things are, nor why they behave. It describes life in operation, but it does not presume to say what life is for.” (Watts)

To clarify from quotation and analogy: the first way in which science’s field is limited is that it explains physical causality from empirical data gathered by repeatable experiment. It does not deal with the teleological (the purpose-oriented) and has no view towards ultimate meaning – except insofar as it might aim to create a theory of everything. The question of life’s meaning is meaningless to a scientist as a scientist. A scientist may explain how humans are made up and how they operate, in vivid detail, but cannot suggest what mankind ought to do. Science has no access to the “why” of life.

Science is therefore strictly amoral, having nothing useful to say about human values or ethics, because it is not equipped to do so. The scientist as human being is obliged to look elsewhere for a sense of the good – but struggles to find it. It is not forthcoming even from philosophy, whose abstractions and liberalism have all but relegated it to the university’s cobwebbed attics, where its most unifying characteristic is a profound disunity of thought.

Consider a nonreligious morality. “If morality consists in doing good to one’s fellow man, it is clear that morality exists for man rather than man for morality, and the problem of what man himself is for is still undecided. If I live simply in order to serve my brother, what is my brother going to do with the service I give him? Serve me? Does the race exist just to serve itself, and if so to what shall it serve itself? To food and clothes for all, to information, medication and harmless amusements? Mere morality as the unifying principle brings us back dangerously close to the biological ideal of the greatest good of the greatest number. Of itself, it offers no real reason for the respect of minorities because it rests on no doctrine as to the true nature of the human person. Its motives for mutual goodwill are purely sentimental, having no deeper origin than fellow-feeling and pity on the positive side, and, on the negative side, that ingrained sense of guilt sometimes called the ‘New England’ or ‘Nonconformist’ conscience.” (Watts)

On the other hand, Christian religions “have a real doctrine of the meaning of human life, namely that man’s true end is union with God in the contemplation of the Beatific Vision. Of all ideas as to the ultimate destiny of man this alone, quite apart from any question of its truth, gives us a real end, a point beyond which the question of further purpose cannot be asked, because the enjoyment of God is an infinite good.” (Watts, extensively)

In the absence of a final or true end, morality contains only contingencies and sentiment. A purely biological understanding of man’s nature, which is the paradigm of science, results in the understanding of man as merely animal, morality as mere social contract, and leaves nothing moral to be said against contravening the contract if one can evade punishment. Apart from mere sentiment, we find no basis for the idea that man should not be treated as an animal.

In radical contrast, religion provides an ultimate end and an infinite good. The various religions naturally speak in different ways, but their answers are identical in effect. Christianity posits the contemplation of God as an infinite good and man’s ultimate end, and from the preceding discussion of the infinite and its ‘relationship to’ the finite, one may get a sense of the credibility of this valuation – what human would not enjoy the experience of union with the ultimate essence of all things? Buddhism shies away from absolutes, presenting a framework of suffering and wellbeing and working on the assumption that it is better to be well than to suffer. Nevertheless, setting (very radical) metaphysical differences aside, enlightenment and nirvana in Buddhism are analogous to the direct contemplation of God in Christianity and, if it were possible to shed the respective metaphorical skins, each would be seen to be identical with the realisation of the metaphysical infinite.

They Don’t Know What is What

There is another limitation of science: it does not explain the what.

“In our endeavour to understand reality we are somewhat like a man trying to understand the mechanism of a closed watch. He sees the face and the moving hands, even hears its ticking, but he has no way of opening the case. If he is ingenious he may form some picture of a mechanism which could be responsible for all the things he observes, but he may never be quite sure his picture is the only one which could explain his observations. He will never be able to compare his picture with the real mechanism and he cannot even imagine the possibility or the meaning of such a comparison.” (Einstein and Infield, The Evolution of Physics) (emphasis mine)

Or, somewhat more succinctly, in the words of Sir Arthur Eddington describing the mystery of the electron: “Something unknown is doing we don’t know what.” This might equally well describe the current scientist’s attitude towards the Higgs Boson, for instance, although the present case might require a greater sense of perplexity. This proper and necessary humility regarding science’s role in the world is sometimes hard to detect in contemporary scientific atheists in the God Wars. Perhaps they feel so affronted by religion’s political prevalence that they consider humility an impractical possibility, which would be entirely understandable.

To clarify this point, science explains phenomena as causes and results. It may analyse the constituents of an atom, for example, and then again the constituents of an electron, and then those of a quark, but in doing this it explains constituents of phenomena, not the essence or the nature of phenomena. Moreover, it never will.

Arguably the great hope of science is a theory of everything, an elegant theory that will completely describe every known phenomenon. This might explain the “what” and, if we are really liberal with our imagination, might go some way towards a “why” of reality. But there are important philosophical problems with the possibility of a theory of everything.

One such is Gödel’s incompleteness theorem, an analogy of which (according to Stanley Jaki and Stephen Hawking) suggests very strongly that no finite number of principles can ever completely describe reality. Without getting into the complexities, which are many and much too mathematical for my limited intelligence, if Gödel’s incompleteness theorem applies to scientific theories – as it seems to – then science as we know it will never produce a consistent and complete theory of everything.

There is another problem that runs more pervasively in the domain of scientific knowledge and is also relevant to religion and metaphysic: conceptual dualism.

Over and Against

Dualism is “a state of two parts” and because it is so familiar to the Western mind it is very difficult to point it out – it is like trying to see something that is too close to one’s eye to be seen. The reason for the familiarity is that dualism arises from conceptual thought, and we have been identified with conceptual thoughts for almost our entire lives. Nevertheless, it’s worth a try.

The most fundamental dualism is a subject/object dualism. For instance, in the case “I see the cup”, “I” am the subject on this side and “the cup” is the object on its side. There are two parts. Subject/object dualism is inherent to the scientific method to date, which operates on the principle of “an experiment” on that side and “an observer” on this side. Over the last several decades, science has become familiar with the pitfalls of this idea due to discoveries in quantum mechanics, which have crystallised the ‘entangled’ nature of the observer and the observed.

Dualism is radically flawed, because, in reality, no single phenomenon is fundamentally separate, existing from its own side. There is no basic, ultimate or fundamental separation between the observer and the observed – if they were fundamentally separate, there could be no relationship or interaction between them. To think of them as separate is therefore mistaken, despite appearances of phenomenal multiplicity. That dualism is logically untenable is not a new idea to Western philosophy, although the implications of this have not permeated Western society. Although the world may appear in duality, or multiplicity, logically that can only be a false appearance.

Now, conceptual analyses are always dualistic, because every concept ‘cordons off’ its referent from the rest of reality and views it as separate. (For instance, to have a concept of a cup, you must first designate “cup” as distinct from “not-cup”.) Because conceptual analyses are always dualistic, they are always mistaken, because nothing exists in the way that it should exist in order for a conceptual analysis to be complete.

The implication for science is this: as long as inquiry remains conceptual, and therefore dualistic, it can never obtain to a true and complete knowledge or representation of reality. And it is hard to see how science can cease to operate conceptually.

However, it is false to say that because language and science cannot do it, it is impossible. Religion – or, more properly, metaphysic – is better equipped than science to answer questions about the ultimate nature of reality. Unfortunately, because the infinite is indescribable and metaphysical realisation is private, metaphysic cannot give a truly satisfactory answer to anyone ‘else’. Religion is not there to be analysed, but practised.

“No-one can tell you what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.”
-  Morpheus

The Faiths of Science

Among my list of ways in which scientific atheists err was the impression that they do not acknowledge the faiths inherent in a scientific worldview. It seems to me that the very idea of scientific knowledge (as opposed to scientific instrumentalism) rests on some assumptions about the world, and that if any of them are false then scientific knowledge is empty of truth. These assumptions include, but may not be limited to, beliefs that

  • phenomena are real,
  • that they have intrinsic properties that can be measured,
  • and that science can achieve a true description of reality (as distinct from a mythological description of reality) using mathematics or language.

Even if one of these principles were to be false, it would still be the case that that X-rays reveal broken bones, that aerofoils cause lift and that nuclear explosions destroy cities. Science would still have instrumental value, which is arguably what really matters – but it would be stripped of truth value.

It is possible to delve very deeply into these philosophical questions, and (I may be wrong, but) it seems that they are by no means concluded. Until they are concluded in favour of science, the religious person defending his or her beliefs from a scientific atheist may point to the questionable truth value of science and suggest that scientific atheists overreach themselves in talking as scientists about truth or the nature of reality.

The argument from conceptual dualism, above, seems to challenge the assumption, which is necessary for science to have truth value, that language can achieve a complete description of reality. There is at least one more argument that challenges the truth-value of language, from Nietzsche in his On Truth and Lies in a Non-Moral Sense. It is difficult to decide which paragraph or series of paragraphs to quote from that astonishing essay, but this line suffice:

“It is this way with all of us concerning language; we believe that we know something about the things themselves when we speak of trees, colours, snow, and flowers; and yet we possess nothing but metaphors for things – metaphors which correspond in no way to the original entities.”

Nietzsche illustrates the process of abstraction, the creation of metaphors, in a sequence: from the nerve stimulus to an image, from an image to a sound (a word) and from a word to a concept, which, he says “simultaneously has to fit countless more or less similar cases – which means, purely and simply, cases which are never equal and thus altogether unequal. Every concept arises from the equation of unequal things.”

This is a massive and fundamental critique of the truth value of language and is by no means aimed at science in particular, but its relevance for the truth value of science, since science is based on language, is obvious.

Enough is Enough

Now my fingers are tired. I hope that I’ve illustrated the ways in which both parties to the God Wars make some unfortunate mistakes, and that the realisation of these might lead to an overall decline in hostilities. I hope that the body of this essay has provided its readers with some useful food for thought, and that perhaps the taste is richer and subtler than might at first have been suspected.

My tone may have resembled that of a religious apologist. I do perceive a value in religion that seems to be missed by scientific atheists as well as by some religious people. These latter I would, if pushed, call politically or dogmatically religious rather than integrally religious – they emphasise dogma and faith to the exclusion or ignorance of the realisation or experience to which the dogma points and faith leads. By the same token, were it not such an undesirable label for them, I would call some scientific atheists religious in an integral sense notwithstanding their refusal to admit any articles of faith. I would mean it as a compliment.

In brief conclusion, I have tried to show that religious people and scientific atheists do not need to fight – unless it is over a matter of genuine practical import, like the coalescence of church and state. Where they fight over other matters, it is usually because they misunderstand each other’s position or have only a coarse understanding of their own. Each school can learn a great deal from the other, and many followers of both actually do.

A brief summary of the values universal to all religions would include compassion, humility, wisdom, patience and love. The view remains widespread that religions are hateful and dangerous; that the harm religion has wrought through ‘religious’ wars and superstition exceeds the good brought about by people who have dedicated their lives to the selfless service of others in the name of their religion; and that humankind would be better off if religion was eradicated. The latter view is especially naïve, but any of these views are understandable only from a perspective that conflates the religious with the political (as many religious people continue to do). The motivations for war are greed and fear; ‘religious’ wars are given a specious cloak of religiosity by the rulers who instigate them, so that they appear righteous to the people who actually do the fighting. In this way religion, like any other doctrine, may be used for evil – but that is not a fault inherent to religion. Fundamentalism of any kind will always be dangerous, and dogma will never be a valid substitute for reason.

That patience is among the virtues of all religions makes religious people’s inflamed participation in the God Wars all the more frustrating. The response of a truly religious person would be patient, humble, compassionate and loving, or at least written with the effort or aspiration to be so.

My personal and tentative working thesis at present is that religions (and, in fact, words in general) are like fingers pointing at the moon. There are many fingers, but only one moon. It is important for religious people to notice that other fingers also point in the same direction. And it is crucial, for anyone, not to be so attached to the finger that one never looks at the moon.

15 Responses to “calming the waters”

  1. Alistair said

    What impresses me most about this piece, Pad, is its spirit of generosity and compassion. The call for open-mindedness and respect across the religious/scientific field is admirable, and urgent. Your criticism of religious excesses and the limits of empirical science seems, at least largely, justified.

    Nevertheless, there is much in the piece that I struggle to understand. In particular, the discussion of the infinite was mostly beyond me, and I couldn’t grasp what you meant by a / the ‘metaphysic’. Is this a case of the limits of language, or could these ideas be expressed more clearly or simply?

    All the best!

  2. Patrick said

    Thank you, Al. I’m very glad you like it.

    On rereading, I can understand why the section on metaphysics is confusing to readers. My explanation was very bad! I’ve added two paragraphs (underneath the four quotes from various religious sources) to provide what was lacking: a display of attempts to say exactly what the infinite is, and where they run into trouble. I hope that is helpful.

    I could get into a discussion of the relationship between the infinite and the finite… but it suffices to say, as I have, that the infinite must by definition contain the possibility of limiting itself in multiple finitudes — and that explains creation. (It also points to nonduality, since there is no logically tenable distinction between the infinite and the finite — the infinite is present at every point of finite space, and so on. So, since they are the same in principle, or of the same essence, and since in terms of the ultimate all finitudes are unified, ultimately there is no separation, no duality.)

    Perhaps I ought also to elaborate the nature of metaphysical experience… but really, I am hopelessly unqualified to do that! The writers of saints and mystics will suffice.

    The rest of my thinking is by no means crystal-clear. But hopefully it’s not so muddy as to be entirely inaccessible or blatantly wrong.

    Thanks again!

  3. Meryl Steinberg said

    What I love about Vedanta is the teaching that while only on “Truth” , two relative things can be true (even 3 or 4 ) smile. There is really no reason for scientists & religion to clash. Just look at my dear Albert Einstein. Good article, trying to explain the unexplainable is always tricky–but you’ve given all, great food for thought.

  4. Martin Capraro said

    Hello Patrick

    I followed the link to this article from your post on the Mail and Guardian’s site. I’m glad I did, as it is very well written and insightful. I wish more people would read it. I apologise in advance for a lengthy post, but judging from your article you might enjoy it.

    Having read your article I must confess that I largely agree with you, especially as regards the Infinite, the Absolute, the Good, the Truth or whatever other word we may use to signify that which is ineffable to human perception. I also agree with your description of the God Delusion as ‘shrill’. However, I did find it to be a rallying cry for the modern atheist-from-moral-protest, a category I include myself in. I was simply overwhelmed in my childhood by the bigotry of the religious (well, not ALL of them). Ironically, this makes me and any other atheists who have been victimised by the religious closer to the original spirit in which Christianity was conceived than many Christians, a point presumably lost on them.

    I do think you might have overlooked some salient features of the modern ‘atheist movement’ if such a thing may be said to exist (I believe organising atheists has been compared to herding cats). Many (again, not ALL) atheists are motivated more by an opposition to anti-rationalism, rather than an opposition to the kind of ultra-rationalism you describe. Creationism, for example, is pernicious, and in my opinion, degrades the very idea of the Infinite you so eloquently call upon. Christianity should be about the Beatific Vision of, or Union with, God, but it tends rather to be about condom use, limiting the reproductive rights of women and being rather unkind to the suggestion that we diverged from a common ancestor with the rest of the primates.

    The problem is, many religious people don’t think of God in purely metaphysical terms. He really is ‘up there’. In these cases it is relevant to compare God to the flying spaghetti monster, as He is then in the realm of the physically and logically testable. You dealt with this in the section ‘God is your metaphor’. Of course, religious fundamentalists are unlikely to be swayed by any argument whatsoever, and this is my main issue with Dawkins. But I do think it is important to raise awareness about such issues. People must realise there is a debate for checks and balances to have any meaning. The moderates who turn a blind eye to the religious extremists are at least partly complicit in their crimes.

    Your statement that ‘only a superficial understanding of Christian theology… could regard it is logically untenable or naïve’, is true as far as it goes. I must confess an ignorance of much of Christian theology, although I have found Augustine both interesting (as he provides a precedent for the mathematical concept of infinity) and amusing (as when he talks about the sin of idle curisoity. Several commentators have blamed this view for the subsequent stagnation of intellectual innovation, in anything apart from pure metaphysics, in later Church history, when much of Augustine became official Church doctrine). While, in a certain light, Christian metaphysics is beyond reproach, it ceases to be so when you realise that temporal theology must of necessity be based on the metaphysical. What good is contemplation of the Divine when men are in danger of dire sin? Of course, this problem arises because the ideas (or rational images as you call them) must be cast in terms of analogies. The same unassailable metaphysics end up justifying the unjustifiable – burning heretics, suggesting condom use is part of the problem etc. The metaphysics has led directly to immorality, in contravention to the supposed perfection of the Infinite. A believer might protest that I have bypassed the authority of God, the Infinite or whatever – but I have actually appealed to a moral authority. There can be no higher moral authority than God, QED; Christian theology is assailable – from a moral perspective at least. I feel it is appropriate to quote Kant,“ As I grow older, two things continue to astonish me. The stars above and the moral law within” or something to that effect.

    One might also protest that it is the imperfect nature of man that leads to ‘errors’ like the Crusades, but this is disingenuous as it begs the question ‘When will we know?’ Perhaps then even our logic that suggests the Infinite is Ineffable and ‘the circle whose center is everywhere but circumference nowhere’ is flawed and in some way damning in the eyes of the true God.

    I must also respectfully disagree with your approach to miracles, unfortunately. Past events are indeed beyond physical scrutiny, except for recordings (Although this is not strictly true. Any intelligent aliens looking at the light reflected from the Earth about 2000 years ago should be able to see Jesus. There are already plans for planet hunting telescopes with the required resolution. We might yet spot the birth of an alien religion. So miracles are not, in principle, beyond observation. There’s still the tricky problem of interstellar communication to work out). I feel the problem lies with your subscription to the idea of consensus reality. I realise I am on shaky philosophical ground here, but bear with me. A basic premise of science is that there is a physical reality beyond and independent of ourselves (“phenomena are real” in your words. I consider this to be self-evident. If it were false, we would still perceive phenomena, and then at the very least these sense impressions would be ‘real’ as we could simply define this to be what real is. This does lead to some other thorny issues, that of the “knower” you mentioned in relation to infinity). A caveat: quantum systems do not seem to have certain well-defined properties before we measure them. But the system, at the very least, exists (Well… probably). If this were not so, science couldn’t predict anything (this is distinct from the problem of the experimenter influencing his experiment). But it does. Science does in fact deal with once-offs, or the statistically very very unlikely. In the field of statistical thermodynamics for example, one often finds solutions (or rather, accessible micro-states) that can physically occur, but that have such a small probability of occurring that you would have to wait longer than the age of the observable Universe (by a huge factor) to have any chance of observing it. So ‘God’ could have manipulated the early Universe in some way to allow a miraculous configuration to occur at time x. However, the Vatican has officially defined miracles not be such. They are rather direct manifestations of God’s Will (as far as I understand. I am speaking under correction). The thing is, physics is hardly the only part of science applicable to any purported miracle. It is almost incredible to suggest that observations in the here and now, of modern religious occurrences and new religions, do not apply to the past. Simply by extrapolating from charlatans (Scientology springs to mind) one can deduce that there is a low probability of Jesus having risen from the dead. Considering the paucity of contemporaneous primary sources, a more serious and applicable problem is proving that He actually existed. The introduction of probability does not undermine the validity of science as the arbitrator of physical reality anymore than quantum physics or statistical thermodynamics does. One cannot ‘prove’ that Jesus didn’t rise from the dead. I cannot ‘prove’ that all the air in the room you’re sitting in will not go sit in one corner. But if you do the math you find that you will have to wait more than 100 billion billion years to expect this to reasonably occur. So it won’t. Problems of meaning and language aside (admittedly a very big issue), I hope you see my point.

    I find your statement that “…the resurrection would not even have been a question for science if there had been scientists at Golgotha, for they would not have been able to repeat the experiment” confusing. As far as I can see, the only question of interest is whether it actually occurred, as this is the alleged miracle itself. One need not delve into the issue of the nature of this phenomena, merely whether it happened. I agree that it “remains a great arrogance for a school that deals only with the necessarily commonplace or repeatable to suggest that very rare phenomena do not occur or are impossible”. However, as I pointed out above, science does not state this, nor does science deal with only the commonplace. In principle, all physical events, however strange, are explainable in the context of science. Consciousness is an example of a very strange event. I suppose it is debatable whether this is purely physical, but it certainly has physical effects, which are measurable, so science shouldn’t give up quite yet.
    Considering the vast amount of possible improbable events (or accessible micro-states) it is unlikely that none of them ever occur. In fact they may occur often. We might just not notice, because of the size of the Universe and the fact that remarkably unlikely events are not always going to be as spectacular as those in the Bible or The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

    This does not answer the more serious charge of the limits of science. I happen to agree with you. However, although the traditional view is indeed that the limits of science are dictated by our ability to obtain and then analyse empirical data, it overlooks certain facts, not least Karl Popper’s point that scientists never really prove anything. They merely disprove, and accept as true that which has not yet been disproven.
    Science can also open a door to the idea of the Ineffable by pointing out the ways in which our knowledge is limited. Here’s a link http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.1148 to a paper that does just that (in my opinion anyway. The author might disagree. It also fits in nicely to what you wrote about dualism, in the sense that it suggests non-local hidden variables). To sum up, it suggests that the space (or set) of all physically realisable states is a subset on a much larger invariant (fractal) set. If true, it both explains the limits of quantum physics (its indeterminism) and suggests we will have much difficulty in ultimately surpassing it. It might even be impossible. I like to think of this vast, infinite complexity as ‘God’. Of course, It probably doesn’t care very much, so the traditionally religious probably won’t be satisfied.

    I hope you found this interesting in some way. I look forward to a reply. If one is not forthcoming I will not be overly concerned, so don’t feel obligated. I could have written more, as I didn’t even scratch the surface of what you were suggesting. I commend your attempt to close the gap between the religious and the scientific nonbelievers.

    Martin Capraro

    • Patrick said

      Hey Martin

      Thanks a lot for your comment! I’m glad you enjoyed the post and heartened that you mostly agree with it. I did indeed find your comment very interesting. Thank you sincerely for the opportunity to discuss this some more. Please do take issue with me on anything I say here. I’m slightly concerned that I seem to spend much more time attacking science and defending religion, but I think this is perhaps because more engagement tends to come from scientific thinkers than from religious ones, the former perhaps being more capable of emotional detachment from their argument. Also, in contrast to you, my experience of the debate seems to witness religion oppressed by science rather than the other way around! I was a rabid atheist in my day, and I’ve since lost the rabies but not the atheism. Nevertheless, I’m sure you and I will both raise our glasses to a principle of non-oppression of either party by the other.

      On to the issues…

      Regarding the opposition of Atheism (capital to denote the movement) to antirationalities like Creationism, certainly, many religious people do believe God is really ‘up there’! I arrogantly regard that as ‘harmless delusion’ (insofar as there is such a thing, strictly speaking) but it becomes genuinely harmful when it becomes political. However, if scientific atheists were aware of the possibility of God as the metaphysical infinite, they would be able to argue much more constructively with theists. After refuting God’s existence in the realm of the scientifically testable, they could then mention the scientifically inaccessible but tenable possibility of God as the metaphysical infinite. That would give theists the possibility of saving face (as well as returning them to a truly religious rather than merely politically religious orientation) and would make things a whole lot more pleasant all round.

      Your next point comes dangerously close to the problem of evil, which I didn’t mention and have no ideas about. Things like burning heretics at the stake or condemning condom use are morally wrong without reference to religion. But I’m afraid I don’t see how, as you say, “unassailable metaphysics end up justifying the unjustifiable”. Accurately speaking it is religious metaphor, which is highly assailable outside its own turf, that is wrongly used to justify the morally unjustifiable. This is not a fault of the metaphysic, which justifies nothing (and condemns nothing, since all events, including burning heretics and the HIV virus, are ‘within’ it).

      Religious metaphor can be used to evil ends, but the fault lies in the use of the metaphor rather than with the metaphor itself. Exactly the same can be said of nuclear fission (great in power plants, terrible in the Hiroshima sky) or of almost anything. Religious metaphor is great in the minds of a church congregation or a contemplative hermit, and terrible in the hands of a self-interested political entity. What is needed is not less religious metaphor, or less religion, but more reason and more compassionate motivation. Reasonable people, whether theistic or not, should not seek to ablate religious metaphor but to put it in its proper place, firmly, gently and wisely.

      You feel the basic premise of science is self-evident “that there is a physical reality beyond and independent of ourselves”. I would like to take strong issue with this. Although what you state is a widespread assumption, it is by no means self-evident. There is absolutely no way of verifying any reality beyond our own perception. (That may be counter-intuitive and inconvenient to consider, but so were quantum mechanics to Einstein – we shouldn’t let sentiment or incredulity get in the way of strict rational analysis.)

      Take this analysis: if a flower, for instance, really exists the way it appears to exist (i.e. from its own side, independent of ourselves or our relation to it, as you suggest a physical reality exists) then this flower should be findable under logical analysis. But when we analyse the flower, we cannot find the flower. To analyse it by parts, the flower is not its petals, nor its stamen, nor its leaves, nor its stem. The flower is not the sum of its parts, for if you take all these parts and lay them side by side without any parts excluded, that is not the flower. Nor does the flower suddenly exist from its own side when all the parts are returned to their former relations. Logically analysed, the flower as such, in itself, does not exist. An appearance of a flower exists, but that is contingent upon our labelling, our designation and our conceptualisation, in other words the flower exists only in relation to the processes of our perception. There is no fundamental substance to that appearance, no independent reality. And this analysis is applicable to every phenomenon. The reality that science would like to assert simply does not exist in the way science would like it to.

      Now as regards the miraculous, I do indeed see your point. Given a scientific worldview, it is very (times 100) unlikely, and thus ‘impossible’, for all the gas in the room to go sit in the corner. But setting that specific example aside, we know that the scientific worldview is naïve, partial and consists entirely of approximations. It is the arbitrator of physical reality only insofar as it really penetrates reality – which is to say, only approximately, partially and naively. What would a scientific worldview have to say about a master of meditation being able to perceive my thoughts, about Taoist adepts flying over valleys, about Tibetan monks meditating naked for hours in Himalayan snowstorms, about St Francis of Assisi’s communication with animals, or about hundreds of other reported instances of ‘the miraculous’ (a term which only a naïve worldview forces us to employ)? Would it deny them outright, explaining them as mere hallucination or explain their reportage as lies? That would amount to the arrogance I describe in my original article.

      Such things are apparently not as unlikely as all the gas in the room going to sit in the corner, since thousands of ‘miracles’ have been reported by men and women of the very highest morality who have no reason whatsoever to lie (in fact, their ‘religious superstition’ motivates them strongly against lying – I’m thinking specifically of Tibetan Buddhists here, and not South American Catholics, for no particular reason). Moreover, some of the ‘religious’ metaphysics of the people involved give excellent explanations on their own terms for the possibility of such events. Tibetan Buddhists, in fact, do not regard the miraculous as all that surprising, since they do not believe (as we no longer can) in an objective reality governed absolutely by inviolate conceptual laws. From their perspective, our surprise at the miraculous is itself quite surprising, and the way we get into a huff, deny or try to explain away the miraculous is merely mystifying, not to say slightly offensive. It indicates that we grossly overestimate the completeness of our understanding of reality – and we do.

      Thank you for the link to the article. I’m sorry to say that I hardly understand the abstract at all, but I do like fractals and I can see only vague hints of sense in this theory in a purely intuitive way. I’m sorry not to be able to engage with you on the level of that science! (But isn’t it a pity, and perhaps even something of an indictment, that science must produce theories of such thorough impenetrability that someone like me, who is quite intelligent although not highly so, cannot understand it at all? Given the simplicity of everyday experience, would the highest truths not be of the utmost simplicity? So simple perhaps that even words would complicate and obscure it? I’m thinking of the Tibetan metaphor of tying knots in the sky: “The thoughts of believing in a self-entity persistently tie knots in the sky.” Anyway, certainly the ivory-tower tendency of science is a problem, sociologically speaking.) However, I do note that the abstract begins “…states of reality belong to, and are governed by, a non-computable fractal subset of state space”. Non-computable? Would that hint at what I’ve described as the infinite, inaccessible to logical analysis?

      Thank you once again for your comment, and thanks for encouraging the attempt to close the gap between the religious and scientific nonbelievers. I’m sure you don’t imply this, but in case I can clarify for others, I don’t mean to bring about a unity of viewpoints or to discourage robust debate. I just want to encourage both sides of the debate to be more respectful, more tolerant, more sincerely self-reflective and perhaps more humble, and I think this can be achieved by serious intellectual engagement.

  5. Martin Capraro said

    Hi Patrick

    Thanks for the reply. I’m going to post a coherent comment as soon as I can. I’m a student and can’t spend as much time thinking about what interests me as I’d like. If it makes you feel better, my majors are physics and applied mathematics, and I only understand a small part of the article I linked to, enough to get the gist of it (hopefully).

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to focus on your treatment of miracles again: your points about epistemology are almost unassailable from a modern perspective, although I feel this is more because of the difficulty we as humans have in dealing with certain concepts than an example of the actual limits of knowledge, which certainly do exist. Mathematicians and people who use math regularly ‘use’ infinity in equations. This is of course not identical with the Infinite, but it is a measure of the progress that has been made in dealing with concepts that were previously considered intractable. Of course, eventually all statements regarding miracles (or anything else) are epistemological, which is a problem.

    To put some of my views in perspective, I occasionally meditate upon the Buddha and my breathe. As someone who likes to pretend that he is rational, I can’t really say that I ‘believe’ in the existence of the transcendent Buddha in the same way that I believe in my hand, but it does calm me down, a measureable effect, and that is enough for me.

    I certainly agree with you about both sides in the debate needing to be more self-reflective, and I’d say you’ve made a fine attempt at encouraging that. You almost make me feel ashamed for not being more humble!

    • Patrick said

      No need for that! The humility thing, I mean :) It is a funny beast. “Alas, I know if I ever became truly humble, I would be proud of it.” – Ben Franklin

      I’m impressed by your majors! Looking forward to the rest of the reply, if you have the time and the inclination. (If not, fear not.) It’s a pleasure to be corresponding.

  6. Simon said

    Hi Patrick,

    I read your article. I endorse a number of points that Martin made.

    Also, I find that you confused science (as reported by Watts) with reductionism. As complexity theory and chaos theory have largely come about after Watts’s death I can understand why this might have occurred.

    You make the error, therefore, that science is necessarily about breaking down, about methodological individualism, about reductionism. Science does not only reduce. Many scientist argue for the understanding, first, of chaos, and, second, of emergent phenomena (refer to someone like Benoit Mandelbrot). You do not consider either of these. Martin suggested you look at fractals – relating thus to chaos theory – and non-computability – a problem of algorithmic theory as understand it – both are, again, useful suggestions. Take a look on the wikipedia entry on recursion theory (i.e. on computability and definitions of computable functions) – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion_theory.

    As I said, scientists do not only take an atomistic view of processes and of the physical world. I would argue that what we construe as ‘meaning’ may be an emergent phenomenon of the operation of brain processes. What I mean by this is as follows: we can measure individual neurons firing, eventually we may be able to take these measurements and also measure the manifestation of these neurons firing in harmony to create something which they cannot create when firing individually. Hence, we may be able to measure what you argue is immeasurable.

    Complexity theory argues for just such an approach to of phenomena ranging from human behaviour to, potentially, theories of mind and experience, and, possibly, the origins of life on the planet earth. Your argument that the scientist and the faithful are therefore orthogonal is incorrect. The scientist, if not now, might later be able to quantify experience, to measure meaning. That we cannot now does not mean that we shall not, or should not. Moreover, it does not mean that we will not be able to make verifiable predictions about kinds of meaning, kinds of responses, kinds of beliefs.

    Anyway, I would have made other points, but Martin made some of them already. I too hope to see his other responses. I really should be studying…

  7. Alistair said

    Si, to the extent that I understand your post, it seems your faith in science is remarkable. You say that “the scientist, if not now, might later be able to quantify experience, to measure meaning.” I couldn’t help wondering, in what metric will “meaning” or “experience” be scientifically measured? Speed of electrons moving in the brain? Perhaps that will explain everything.

  8. Martin Capraro said

    After thinking about it, I realised I will have to address the issues about epistemology you raised for my comments to have any validity. The central issue is, I feel, the one raised by your example of the flower. I seem to recognize this as very similar to the meditation on the non-existence of the Self from the Lamrim school of Tibetan Buddhism. The easiest way ‘out’ of this is to take the existence of the flower as an axiom of the system (this is a contradiction I will attempt to justify later). In the text I read it was suggested that although the Self does not exist, we can still understand ‘the Self’ to be merely that word by which we signify that which conceives, or ‘the sum of all the parts’, since clearly the concept is not completely meaningless. We could not function without it. An evolutionary biologist might say we developed this concept (or our brain evolved to accommodate it) to increase our chances of survival. And it certainly has. Several thousand years ago the total biomass of all humans and our pets was something like 0.01% of terrestrial vertebrates. Today it is at least 98% (I’m sorry for not providing references for stuff. You don’t have to take my word for it, call me out if I’m wrong). It is still to be seen whether this is a good survival strategy in the long run.

    Anyway, this designation of ‘the Self’ is for me completely analogous to that of the flower. We can agree that the flower ‘only exists in relation to the processes of our perception’, without accepting that this necessarily requires our processes of perception to be distinct from a physical Universe. Or maybe the processes are, but not the qualities they represent. It might constrain our notion of an objective Universe, if we actually accept the epistemological point about the flower. I am sure there are philosopher who don’t, but I don’t really know enough about it to prove you wrong. You may be right. I honestly don’t know. But science does claim to know quite a lot about flowers. We can restrict this knowledge to our sense-impressions of flowers. This doesn’t, in my mind, eliminate physical reality. At the very least the sense-impressions exist (this does suggest solipsism as a viable philosophy, which suggests to me an error in logic somewhere). You don’t have to accept that these sense-impressions are the result of physical phenomena acting on physical bodies, but it is the simplest explanation (Occam’s Razor). If this were not so, it is nearly impossible for me to see how science can predict anything, even approximately. Despite all this, I couldn’t agree more with you when you say that scientific rationalism should be informed by the possibility of God as the metaphysical infinite. If nothing else, it provides a satisfying intellectual backbone for the sense of beauty and truth many people experience when contemplating art, mathematics or the natural world, and is a healthy companion to the inner morality we all share (in outline at least). Despite all my protestations I have actually yielded quite a bit of ground to you with regard to the limits epistemology places on science. It doesn’t really satisfy me, but it has helped me clarify my own views on the matter. I’m not sure you will actually agree with anything I’ve stated above, but that’s the point of a discussion.

    I think the fundamental differences in our opinions arise from our differing definitions of reality, or maybe in different understandings of what the term implies. As you pointed out in the original article, this is essentially also the point of contention between the religious and the scientific non-believers (I do seem to be leaning towards the latter. I will try to be balanced). I admit the existence of planes of existence (specifically, internal, subjective emotional states and epistemological issues arising from the essentially ‘subjective’ nature of observations, and the language which we use to describe something that is distinct from the object itself) that are seemingly inaccessible to science. However I feel quite strongly that miracles don’t fall into this category, as they are mostly in the realm of physically observable phenomena. I will restrict my discussion to those that are, so will not include the possibility of meditation masters who can read thoughts, as this adds the complication of the nature of thought. I should point out though that there are people who make a living exposing the methods of, for example, cold readers like John Edwards. I realize that this is not identical with mind-reading by meditation masters, but it does bring the possibility of charlatanism into view.

    Rereading what I have written so far I feel I should apologise. Your stated aim is to increase understanding, and this requires a certain degree of humility. In my discussion so far I have already fallen prey to what is the central arrogance of science: that there is a natural world, and that we can make predictions about it based on logical inquiry. I’m not suggesting that you are not being logical. In fact, you have shown a remarkable amount of it. But this characteristic of science is intrinsic and essential to it, and is responsible for much of the friction between the religious and the scientific non-believers. The central arrogance of the religious, from the point of view of the scientist (or mine, to be honest), is that there are certain areas that are sacrosanct and beyond the limits of scientific knowledge. There probably are such areas (well, not sacrosanct ones), but I don’t think miracles is one of them, as they are purely physical, in contrast to the religious experience. To take the example of the flying Taoist adepts, I am tempted, in the tradition of the scientific method, to simply say ‘prove it’. I very much would like to believe that people can fly through proper application of the mind, but my experience suggests this is very unlikely, and without evidence to the contrary I will, again through application of Occam’s Razor, assume it to be false. This does not exclude the possibility of a physical mechanism whereby people can fly, “but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. Surely the fact that Buddhist monks might be slightly offended at my insistence in the existence of an objective world has more to do with the social context in which Buddhism evolved than with the validity of the scientific method as applied to claims of what many would say amounts to the supernatural? In a sense, a strict understanding of science renders the very concept of the ‘supernatural’ to be an oxymoron. There is merely that which we do not understand yet. If any of the great scientists in the past did not hold this ‘faith’, we would be much the poorer for it. Its validity is borne out by experience, and quite emphatically not the type of internal experience that is so hard to qualify.
    I recommend Carl Sagan’s excellent ‘A demon haunted world: Science as a candle in the dark’, very strongly if you are very interested in the kinds of questions we’ve been dealing with. I certainly intend to track down that book by Watts you quoted so extensively from (when I have time anyway).

    I don’t think you that you’re suggesting that simple belief can make anything possible, but it is easy to parody it as such and some people do. This is in part because of the very real threat that people will disregard the findings of science and take refuge in the kind of world where cancer can be cured by crystal healing (for example), refuse standard medical treatment, and die (a non-political harm caused by ‘delusion’). Of course, people who get chemo also die, and people who get crystal healing occasionally get better. This is because science is not perfect, but a self-correcting mechanism whereby some measure of truth about the physical world is gained.
    A fine example of the misrepresentation of the findings and nature of modern physics is the film ‘What the Bleep Do We Know?’, a film funded by a foundation with links to JZ Knight. I feel that if I were to accept all your statements unconditionally, I would be forced to admit that JZ Knight does indeed channel the spirit of a 35000 year old Lemurian warrior (as she claims), or that the Lizards are indeed among us, controlling world politics. It is, in my mind at least, a short jog from this to having tea-parties with invisible unicorns from Atlantis (I hope you can see this as humorous. I don’t intend this as a way to score cheap points, but rather as a way to defuse any negative emotional impact my statements may have. Also, I obviously don’t really represent the views of ‘science’, merely my understanding of it. I am sure many scientists would disagree with me, or be able to help me with an error of comprehension. I welcome this if it is done in the spirit of inquiry. I’m just a student after all).

    To sum up so far, I agree that science is limited. I just feel that you have set the limits a bit narrow. Science can describe the ‘merely’ physical without being purely materialistic (I realize you weren’t really suggesting this, but it ties in with my previous point). I will have to quote Heisenberg to convince you:

    “ Looking back to the development of Greek philosophy up to this point one realizes that it has been borne from the beginning to this stage by the tension between the One and the Many. For our senses the world consists of an infinite variety of things and events, colours and sounds. But in order to understand it we have to introduce some kind of order, and order means to recognize what is equal, it means some sort of certainty. From this springs the belief that there is one fundamental principle, and at the same time the difficulty to derive it from the infinite variety of things. That there should be a material cause for all things was a natural starting point since the world consists of matter. But when one carried the idea of fundamental unity to the extreme one came to that infinite and eternal undifferentiated Being which, whether material or not, cannot in itself explain the infinite variety of things. This leads to the antithesis of Being and Becoming and finally to the solution of Heraclitus, that the change itself is the fundamental principle, the ‘imperishable change that renovates the world,’ as the poets have called it. … We may remark at this point that modern physics is in some way extremely near to the doctrines of Heraclitus. If we replace the word ‘fire’ by the word ‘energy’ we can almost repeat his statements word for word from our modern point of view. ”

    Werner Heisenberg, ‘Physics and Philosophy’ (1958)

    I don’t really know if we can be said to making ‘progress’, but I feel I have gained something by being confronted by my own inconsistencies, which doubtless remain numerous. I think we’ve reached a bit of impasse, as we can endlessly debate the minutiae of everything that’s been stated so far. I’d rather not, as philosophers of all sorts have been doing exactly that for at least 2500 years. So I’ll leave you with what I’ve written above, and look forward to your reply. Maybe I’ll be drawn into another long reply if you write something I consider exceptionally outrageous. I can’t really answer your charge that is science is a form of faith. It certainly is, as far as a belief about anything is a faith. Science seems to be unique among belief systems in that it is coherent and provides us with explanations for physical phenomena that yield concrete results, insights and applications.

  9. Patrick said

    Nice, Martin! I find myself in close agreement with you on many things, and I greatly enjoy and respect your style of discussion as well as your truth-oriented integrity. I’ll reply in hopefully exhaustive detail when I have time… probably after the weekend.

    Si, thanks to you, too. I may find more to say to your post as well, but for now I just want to make two remarks:

    Firstly, although I don’t have time to go back and make the distinction on a case-by-case basis, I largely take your point about the difference between science and reductionism. Science is not necessarily reductionist, although in the case at hand, religious experience, I think science has a distinctly reductionist stance — it wants to reduce ‘experience’ to ‘neurology’. Although these are interesting ideas, they’re somewhat peripheral to the original topic.

    Another commenter (elsewhere) suggested that if I’d substituted “scientism” for “science” he’d have found it easier to agree with me. He described scientism as the view that natural science has authority over all other interpretations of life, such as philosophical, religious, mythical, spiritual, or humanistic explanations, and over other fields of inquiry, such as the social sciences. Scientism rests on the beliefs that physical reality is all that there is, and that science is the best or only way of studying and getting accurate information about reality. Scientism is a worldview whereas science is not. I think this commenter is right: probably in the original article I said science where in fact I meant scientism. Still, what I said would apply very well to the ’scientistic’ participants in the God Wars — and if you wish you can of course fight in their corner! Thankfully, it would not apply to all scientists, many of whom are religious and blur the boundaries — just as I do in being a religious atheist (and whether I’m scientific is increasingly uncertain, although I believe I’m scientific but not scientistic).

    Secondly, I am very interested by your mention of “complexity theory”, and in fashioning this remark I have had to pause to think about what I’m saying, especially as regards meaning and harmonic neuron firings. I don’t suppose that my argument will be news to you, but perhaps it will, and if you can refute it then so much the better! So, onwards: I too must query what it would mean to quantify meaning or measure experience. It’s possible that the limits on these things might not only be a matter of developing the right tools, so that we could do it in future even if we can’t do it now. It might be a strict theoretical or philosophical limit, something along the lines of:

    1. We can measure objectively only what has physical dimensions.
    2. Although the neural correlates of experience are measurable, experience per se is not.
    3. Therefore, we can measure the neural correlates of experience, but experience itself cannot be measured objectively.

    And since “meaning” is experiential, the same argument would suggest it could not be quantified objectively. (I use “objectively” because, with practice, experience can be measured subjectively with astonishing precision, but that is not satisfactory to science.)

    To illustrate something like this, if I may use a quote from your comment:

    “…what we construe as ‘meaning’ may be an emergent phenomenon of the operation of brain processes. What I mean by this is as follows…”

    Meaning -is- what we construe as meaning, not something physical we designate. That designated thing may nor may not -have- meaning for us, but in no way does it constitute meaning itself.

    Supposing that tomorrow science measures the patterned, harmonic firing of neurons in a ‘meaning-correlated brain event’ and designates ‘meaning’ as such. That would be an inaccurate description of meaning, because the meaning of the phrase “meaning-correlated brain event” (for example) does not exist in the neuronal harmonics but in immediate subjective experience. So science can measure correlates of experience, but never experience per se; nor can it satisfactorily reduce the one to the other, for even scientific knowledge must always be known by a consciousness.

    (Despite this argument, I must confess that the idea of neuronal harmonies as consciousness is evocative. They would certainly be a credible ‘basis for consciousness’, if not consciousness itself. On a related note, I’m starting to lose enthusiasm for the mind/brain debate — I’m rather starting to see it as a false problem, especially since the distinction between mind and matter is really quite fuzzy and, I suspect, probably not there at all. But I’ll have to think about this a bit more.)

  10. Simon said

    Dear Everyone, apologies for the delay, I am currently studying for exams and I needed to think a bit before responding.

    Patrick, I respond to your second point, with a little segue into a comment you made.

    I cannot confront your 3 points directly except to say that, largely, I agree with them. (I am, however, titillated by the idea of meaning having a physical aspect which is, as yet, unmeasurable – I don’t think this is the case, but I would happily be proved wrong. I said ‘might’ previously as a purposeful hedge.) Additionally, a lot of this falls into my ‘I don’t know’ box. Nevertheless, I attempt a brief defense of what you criticise.

    Meaning and interpretation might manifest physical (brain activity, blood flow, palm temperature and sweat). These manifestations might, on average, correlate strongly with certain responses. With these we might be able to make statements (within some confidence interval) as to the kind of meaning that people construct, the interpretations that they make, and so on. Obviously, interpreting such results could create meaning, and from interpretation other meaning. But, that’s not relevant to the question of whether we would be able to predict (with given confidence) the kinds of meaning, interpretation, etc people might make for specific acts.

    I am being expansive about what it means to ‘measure’ something, but I think an approach involving qualitative and quantitative aspects would be a first step. I don’t know whether we will ever be able to measure meaning in the way we measure, say, the mass of an object, but rather in the way that we ‘measure’ and make predictions about the weather, or maybe the economy.

    Also, a lot of this falls into the ‘lack of data’ category. With most physical phenomena we can gather data without touching humans; measuring and interpreting meaning and mind requires humans to be experimented on (in an FMRI, neural net, behaviour-response sense, not a Dr. Mengele sense) to get an array of data. We don’t yet have the tools to do such experiments on a large scale: the machines are expensive and the measurements imprecise. I think we’ll make substantial progress on this in the next 25 years.

    On your point ‘the distinction between mind and matter is really quite fuzzy and… probably not there at all.’ I don’t understand what you mean (ha ha). To me, that which we call mind is, most likely, a manifestation of matter, i.e. the argument that mind is an emergent phenomenon of multiple firing neurons, and thus something that no single neuron could achieve firing alone. The separation is crucial – the one (mind) is a consequence of the other’s (the brain’s, i.e. matter’s) activities. Matter is necessary for mind, mind cannot exist without matter. This is, however, way off topic and something I’d be happier to discuss in another forum.

    OK, back to the books.

  11. Alistair said

    Thanks for your response, Si, (good luck for exams!) and to you, Pad, for your further clarifications and argument. I’ve learnt a lot from both of you, and from Martin. As this is beyond my field of expertise, I’ll limit myself one quick point arising from Si’s last comment.

    It seems to me that “lack of data” is the biggest limitation to empirical sciences. For if there’s no evidence, or it’s impossible to acquire reliable evidence, about something, empirical science can provide little insight into what is involved. Yet, that doesn’t entail that there is no “truth-of-the-matter” in question. All it entails is that there’s insufficient evidence to be certain what that truth is. The subject-matter, then, is “up for grabs” and we may argue that one or another interpretation of it is true, on the basis of the limited reasons that still apply in the absence of hard empirical evidence.

    A good example of this, I think, is the debate about the existence of God. Whether God exists is neither empirically verifiable nor falsifiable, but is nevertheless a subject on which there is probably some truth-of-the-matter. It’s just that, without faith of some sort, one can’t be sure what that the truth is.

    Another example are normative or moral assertions – he ought to do this; she ought to do that; etc. Normativity, as Patrick has explained, is beyond the reach of empirical verification or falsification. But that doesn’t entail that normative assertions – e.g. I shouldn’t cause suffering – cannot be true.

    These gaps in the reach of the empirical sciences provide the space into which many religious beliefs can reasonably fit.

  12. Martin Capraro said

    Hi Alistair
    I agree with you to a point; however, your last statement leads to what is sometimes called ‘the God of the Gaps’. If I was a Christian I would be wary of this argument, as I think it might detract from the applicability of the notion of God. It effectively means that the realm of God is in constant retreat from the scientist’s microscope, as more knowledge and information is gained about the Universe, which could be emotionally unappealing to many people, and makes God look a bit shy. Wikipedia tells me that in the Judea-Christian tradition “God is above nature and science”, which is exactly what many scientific atheists dispute. “The God of the Gaps” also, perhaps unfortunately, lends itself to the idea that science is the light that illuminates human ignorance, which can then easily be associated with any concept of the Divine (I confess I am quite sympathetic to this idea).

    Also, I am not sure what it would mean to say that a moral assertion (like ‘I shouldn’t cause suffering’) is true in the context of science. This is one of the places where science has always been considered lacking, although there are trends in evolutionary biology that seem to be trying to remedy this.It is difficult to see how this could ever replace traditional societal norms in determining moral standards. It will probably always remain merely complementary.

  13. Alistair said

    Hi Martin, thanks for the warning. But I don’t think belief systems should be evaluated on the basis of what is “emotionally appealing” or makes God not “look a bit shy”. Those are hardly rational criteria! The idea that God is “on retreat from microscopes” too, while certainly witty, misses the point which is this: empirical science has nothing to say about God, because it can say nothing about God. (It may be able to say something about the movement of electrons in the brain during a professed ‘near-death’ or ‘religious’ experiences, for example, but that’s all it can say: electrons are moving in this and that fashion.) As far as the possibility of science developing to address normativity, well that is logically impossible: normativity is about the ‘ought’; empirical science is about the ‘is’. Unfortunately no amount of evolutionary biology can breach the divide.

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